Making navigation inclusive: the QR code you don't need to see | Oran McAllister

OM: 00:00

There will always be brand loyalty to organizations that provide accessible services, accessible products.

TS: 00:13

Welcome to Made For Us, the show where we explore how intentional design can help build a world that works better for everyone. I'm your host, Tosin Sulaiman.

TS: 00:23

If you own a smartphone, chances are you've scanned a QR code to sign up for an event, access a restaurant menu, make a payment or exchange contact details. But what if you could get information from a QR code without having to focus your camera on it or even know exactly where the code was?

That's the question a team at the Spanish startup NaviLens asked when they set out to reinvent the QR code. They wanted to make it more accessible to people who are blind or partially sighted. So they went back to the drawing board and created a new kind of code that's now being used by more than 30 brands, including Kellogg's, Coca-Cola and Nestle, as well as transport systems from New York to Tokyo. Today I'll be speaking with Oran McAllister, who heads up Client Relations for NaviLens.

He tells me how it's different from traditional QR codes and how the technology is finding its way into museums, supermarkets, music festivals, and even Britain's stately homes. We'll also hear from two former guests of Made For Us who are big fans of NaviLens. Here's my conversation with Oren.

OM: 01:30

So my name is Oren McAllister. work in Client Engagement at NaviLens. So NaviLens is that relatively new technology that was created in order to help people who are blind or partially sighted be more independent in their day-to-day lives. It's a combination of a new type of 2D code as well as our own application.

TS: 01:50

So I'd love you to talk a little bit more about the origin story of NaviLens. What was the initial inspiration? How did the team identify the need for this product?

OM: 02:00

So our organization originally sort of worked in a very different area of business. So it worked along with large organizations helping them to solve logistics and strategic problems that they were having. But for our CEO, Javier Pita, this wasn't really ticking the box for him. He wanted to do something that had a great social impact for a large group of people. And I mean, this is not a new problem. This is not something that's just recently come about. But the original thought process for him was how do people who are blind and partially sighted be independent and autonomous in unfamiliar surroundings? So this was a particular question that has been around for quite some time. And this was where we started thinking about the process of how could we develop some sort of way that people who are blind or partially sighted could access information, could find information, could find locations as easily as possible, suiting to their particular needs and requirements.

And this is kind of where NaviLens came from. The original idea was, well, look, why don't we use QR codes? But, you know, we've all used QR codes. We're more familiar with them now than ever before, especially after the pandemic. QR codes, you need to know where they are. You need to be able to find them, focus them, frame them, and then select the information that's inside the code. And that information also is quite limited as to the information that you can get. So it didn't really suit these needs, these needs of the end users. So we then decided, what if we look into another type of technology or look into another way of creating a technology that would sort of eliminate these particular barriers? So to be able to have a code that could enable people to get the code from much further away, from wide angles while moving, and also be able to put a multitude of information that is then provided automatically, audibly to the end user.

So this is where we started our process of working alongside the University of Alicante in order to see what kind of a technology we could develop that could suit this purpose. And after five years of research and development with the university, we came up with the Navi Lens Code and it's just all been an amazing experience since then of being able to bring this technology to so many different people.

TS: 04:15

Can you say more about how you end up at NaviLens and what drew you to the company?

OM: 04:20

One of the main requirements because NaviLens has been growing quite dramatically over the last few years was that they required someone to really focus on the English speaking markets or where at least English is sort of spoken as a common language, you know, that can be other countries in Europe. And they required someone who had a certain understanding of the needs of people who are blind or partially sighted. Both of my parents have vision impairments. My father has macular degeneration, age related macular degeneration. My mother has tunnel vision due to brain tumour. So I also had a strong understanding of the needs of the people who would potentially use our technology.

TS: 04:58

So for people who aren't familiar, talk us through how NaviLens works.

OM

So NaviLens is a combination of our colourful DD tags. are, they're almost very similar to QR codes, but they're much more dense. They're a five by five coloured matrix, which also then has a black border and a white border around. The coloured matrix is made up of black, yellow, magenta and cyan little squares. Because of this makeup, this is what makes our technology unique. And this is what enables our codes to be detected from much further away.

So these codes are basically placed in locations or on product packaging around locations. And then people can then download our free application, which is called Navi Lens. Basically by pointing the camera in the general direction, you do not need to know exactly where this code is. In fact, our codes can be detected within a 160 degree angle. So as long as the mobile phone is pointing outwards, it generally will tend to find the code. Obviously you do need some line of sight. You need to use the camera. The camera needs to be able to detect code, but it would then announce to you that there is a code. It will then tell you what that code is and then it will allow you to interact with that code. So if you want to locate the code, it can help you to get to that particular location. It can also provide you with the information then that is contained within the code, but it can contain more than just text information. can add hyperlinks.

You can also add real time information, which is really helpful within the transport industry where, for example, with bus stops, with train stations, where there is a real timetable in use, that people can then access that information in the moment and they can get up-to-date information of when the next bus, for example, is going to arrive, where it's going to and how long it's going to be before it gets to you. So that's pretty much in a nutshell. NaviLens has many sort of unique and beneficial attributes where, for example, it's more than 12 times the distance of detection.

OM: 06:59

So more or less approximately for every one centimetre of a Navi Lens code, the code can be detected up to one metre away. So this is incredible for any blind or partially-sighted user because it means that they don't need to get close to the code. They don't need to know exactly where it is. The technology itself will be able to detect it. Again, wide angles. So as long as you are within a 160 degree angle, your mobile phone can detect the code.

And this eliminates this need to know where the particular code is. So you don't need to be directly in front. You can also detect the code while you are moving. So again, you don't need to stop. You don't need to select any information. The technology itself does all of the work. Now, within NaviLens, all the information is provided audibly for the users that they can use through using headsets or it comes directly through the mobile phone itself. You can also read multiple codes at one time. But one of the unique elements is that NaviLens is an automatic language translation feature. So what the application will do itself is it detects the native language of the user's mobile phone and it will then automatically provide the information in that language. So no need to go in and change your settings. It's all automatically done and just makes it much more user friendly for everyone. And by everyone, mean, you know, our technology was created mainly focusing on people who are blind and partially sighted.

But what we have actually found is that our technology can be used by so many more people. And this could even be with tourists who are visiting a country. They don't know the local language. Just by pointing the camera at a particular Navi lens code, will detect that your language is English and it would automatically translate that for you and provide that information.

TS: 08:44

So if I'm traveling abroad, I can go to say a train station where there are NaviLens codes and I'd be able to get around in my own language.

OM: 08:54

Absolutely. You don't need to do anything else. And it's really useful because, know, English does tend to be the kind of global language, especially for people who are traveling. But it can be very difficult, especially if you're traveling and you want to travel within that country and not even just that, but also with product packaging, you might want to be able to get access to information in your own language. But you really couldn't get that without having to type in the information, wait for it to translate. And this way, everything is done automatically for you, so it can really work on so many different levels.

TS: 09:26

If you've been listening to Made For Us since season one, you may remember hearing about NaviLens in my interview with Sam Latif, P&G's company accessibility leader. She talked about how P &G was working with NaviLens to make its packaging more accessible for people with disabilities.

SL: 09:42

We're inserting a code called NaviLens into our packaging. And so with this NaviLens code integrated into our Pantene, into our Pampers, Always and Aerial, Bold, Fairy pods boxes now in the UK. What this will enable blind people to do is download an app called NaviLens. For sighted people, there's an app called NaviLens Go. And once you open that app, when you're walking down the aisle, the products will have the NaviLens code on the front of the pack. And suddenly, you can see all the products on the shelf. It will read the Pantene shampoo, Pantene conditioner, it reads Pampers size one, Pampers size two. You can read all that information through your smartphone.

It also helps people who have hearing loss or autism. So when people with hearing loss or autism are in store, they get sensory overload. But if they use NaviLens, again, via their headset or hearing aid, they can communicate with the product and block out all the other sounds in the store.

SL: 10:50

And then if you think about people in a wheelchair who may not be able to access the top shelves or people with hand dexterity that don't want to lift products to see what's on the pack, it's going to help them too. And finally, if you are visiting the UK and let's say you don't speak English but your phone is in Spanish or Japanese or German, when you point your phone to the products, it will give you the product information in the local language that your phone is in. So it helps a variety of people and it's a phenomenal example of inclusive design.

TS: 11:33

And how many languages are supported.

OM: 11:35

So at the moment, currently working with 37 different languages. Now we understand that there are more than 37 languages in the world, but the language feature, although you can type in any language on your mobile phone and you can read in any language on your mobile phone, the actual text to speech option is not there for all of those options. So we work on the basis of what languages are available and currently on mobile phones, the text to speech, so a voice that actually speaks that language is available.

TS: 12:06

So you talked about how NaviLens has been growing dramatically. Can you give a sense of the growth of NaviLens? How many people are using it today?

OM: 12:15

We just surpassed the 400,000 download mark. So year on year, we're improving on those numbers. More and more people are downloading the technology because more and more people are now finding out about NaviLens. You know, NaviLens in theory is only seven years old. At the very beginning, we were making great progress. were working with associations and organizations globally, and they were giving us the approval. said this is technology that they've never come across before just because of its ease of use and how well it functions.

OM: 12:43

So we were really growing and then the pandemic came in and the major projects that we were actually working on at that time were slightly hindered by that two, two and a half year period where, you know, there wasn't really a lot of movement, especially within transport because of many of the restrictions on transport being used. We do find that, you know, really we've had a good five functioning years. And within that time we've gone from working with a local association just to get their approval to say, yes, the technology works. And the feedback was so great that all of a sudden within Spain, there was this great interest about this new technology.

So we then started testing with I think, first of all, it was the Metropolitan Transport of Barcelona. They wanted to test us on one bus stop. And just by testing on that one bus stop and getting the feedback that they got, which was 100 percent positive approval, they then started implementing NaviLens across the entire bus system, also the metro system and now the overground train system.

And this then began a big explosion of the awareness of NaviLens within Spain, because what people were seeing that especially during that pandemic period, that this kind of technology can actually really eliminate that need for hands-on experience. Don't get me wrong, please. I think Braille is one of the most amazing resources to people who are blind and partially sighted. It has been around for 250 years. It will be around for many, many more.

th Kellogg's back in the year: 2020

OM: 15:05

But then I believe it's under 20 % of people now can read Braille, people who are blind and partially sighted. So there was a big area where people wouldn't be able to access that information. So Kellogg's were then recommended to contact us and we haven't really looked back because from the success of them adding our technology to that one box, they've now expanded that across their entire range of products. I mean, every product now that Kellogg's is responsible for, whether it's now called Kellanova. And that also includes Pringles. They've now got a NaviLens code on all of their packagings.

And then this created a new area of interest. So product packaging. We now work very closely with Procter and Gamble and a number of the brands within their range. We worked with Coca-Cola. We now more recently have been working with Muller. So these are two areas that are really grown exponentially. But what we're also finding is our codes can be used in so many more places in education, in culture, entertainment.

TS: 16:01

If we could go back to transport. So you mentioned that Barcelona was one of the first places to use it in their transport system. Where else is it being used?

OM: 16:11

Throughout Spain, I'll give an overview of that. Pretty much every city in Spain and even smaller cities and large towns are now implementing NaviLens codes within the transport system. So, Murcia here in Valencia, where I live, in Madrid, they've recently implemented NaviLens codes on all 6,600 bus stops throughout the city. And they've already started implementing NaviLens on the Metro system as well, which is a massive project.

And then we have worked on projects within the UK. So we worked in the Houston station in London. We also worked on a trial project on the DLR in London also, as well as Wolverhampton bus station in Ireland, in France, in the Netherlands. But then if we go more internationally, we're in airports and public transport in Japan, also in Singapore. We also have implemented an ambulance codes on the largest tram system in the world, which is in Melbourne, Australia.

OM: 17:07

That was Yara Trams. And then in North America, we're now seeing a big update. So we're working closely with the Metropolitan Transport Authority in New York. They were actually able to get a federal grant in order to expand NaviLens across the metro system within New York or the transport system within New York. This was a $2 million federal funds. This is coming from a government level, but also within the U S where we have NaviLens codes in Los Angeles and Union Station.

We're also present in San Antonio. We're now going to be working on a project in Boston, in Philadelphia. So these projects are appearing all over the United States and also up into Canada as well. So there really is that growth, but this is our plan. It's putting something in place somewhere and then growing from there, making sure people can access it, can see how it works to also install faith in themselves with our technology. And then from there, we start growing and growing and growing.

TS: 18:08

So I'm curious what kind of feedback you've received from users and how that's helped refine the technology.

OM: 18:16

If you go onto our YouTube page, you'll see some of the videos of the experiences that people have had. But for us, it's important for us to get both negative and positive feedback. The negative makes us go back to the table and change things. But we're getting a lot of positive feedback from virtually all of the projects that we work on. We now have certain influencers who discovered our technology and they're speaking freely about us. For example, Lucy Edwards. Lucy is a blind vlogger, she presents on TV. She has said this has changed her life.

LE: 18:48

I was like, oh my God, this is insane.

TS: 18:54

Lucy Edwards was a guest on the first episode of this season. She created NaviLens codes for her wedding and a code also appears on the cover of her book, Blind Not Broken. But she first discovered NaviLens after becoming an ambassador for Pantene. Here she is describing the moment Sam Latif invited her to try it out.

LE: 19:13

She called me and said, my gosh, do you want to do this? And I was like, do I what? Of course. She said come to a day where you're, you know, getting to grips with the technique, just knowing how to use it before the shoot. I was like, yeah, lovely. And they basically had this like mock setup of shelves in a shop and there was loads of Pantene bottles on there. And I came in, I scanned it and I just burst into tears. And I knew I was being filmed, I just couldn't control it. I was like, oh my God, this is insane.

And she said she clips that all of the time and shows it to people. She wants to show like the true emotion and how this has changed lives. And I'm like, cheers babe, lovely. That's amazing. No, but I really like that. It's, you know, I think that's how the world gets changed is little things like that.

TS: 20:00

I also noticed that you're working with supermarkets, you're working with TV channels as well.

OM: 20:05

Yeah, so TV channels are starting to use our codes in place of QR codes. So this has been really a really interesting thing because a lot of in particular news channels often put QR codes on the TV screen in order to allow people to access information about particular stories, about weather and this kind of thing. But again, QR codes are not accessible. Now, in order to retain the use of the QR code because a QR code is linked to one URL or or a particular page of website, and maybe people don't want to change that. So we created the NaviLens accessible QR code. And that's basically combining a QR code with the NaviLens technology, which in effect is a NaviLens border around the QR code. And what that does is that makes that QR code visible from a distance, enables people to be able to find that code. So if they're pointing the phone at the TV screen and that code comes up, it will automatically tell you NaviLens accessible QR code and it will tell you what the information is. And when you access that information, you will then have the same equal access to information as everyone else.

So we're currently using those within Spain. We're also using that technology in Japan. And we are in conversations with a few other broadcasting channels to speak about using these accessible QR codes and potentially using NaviLens codes as well.

OM: 21:25

Supermarkets is an area that is garnering a lot of interest. Now, with all of the work that we're doing with products, I mean, we're working with I think it's more than 30 different brands with now accessible packaging using the NaviLens codes. What a lot of our users are saying to us that this is amazing and they now can go into a supermarket and they can find products, they can find the exact location of the product because NaviLens will take you to within centimeters of where that product is and they can do that and they can also access the information contained within the product.

But one of the major areas and difficulties for them is supermarkets. Actually being able to find the entrance to the supermarket, navigating around the supermarket and not even necessarily navigating, but being able to identify where is the bread aisle? Where is the dairy product aisle? Where are the frozen products? So just being able to get to that particular area takes them one step forward.

OM: 22:22

What our users are saying to us is that they would love to see NaviLens codes being used much more within supermarkets. Now we've done some pilot projects. We were given the opportunity to work with Tesco in Ireland. We had navigation in place so people were able to go in, choose what it is that they wanted to find. And through a series of NaviLens codes being placed, particular strategic points on the floor, people were able to be directed to that particular aisle.

And then when they're in the aisle, they were able to detect the product itself because the products have the NaviLens codes on them. The feedback was amazing. So we did that pilot there, but also we've been working with Carrefour in Belgium. Now Carrefour took it to another level. They now, think in this one supermarket, they are using thousands of codes. And what they're also doing is they're indicating other products. They're indicating areas within the supermarket. So bathrooms, accessible bathrooms, stairs, elevators, café, checkout, self-service checkout, exit. Supermarkets are vitally important. Making them accessible just makes complete sense. And this is an area that we're really hoping to be able to work on and enable organizations such as supermarkets to do this in an affordable way, but also in a very beneficial way that will really help the end users.

TS: 23:41

I'm wondering what are the motivations for companies that choose to partner with you? Is this more about corporate social responsibility or about tapping into a previously underserved market? Is it about positive PR? What's your sense?

OM: 23:57

It seems to be a little bit of all of the above. Something that's vitally important for us at NaviLens is that the right reason for using NaviLens is always in place. That NaviLens is being used to help the local patrons of that company, organization, entertainment venue, that is to help them. So that's what we always try and establish at the beginning. We want to make sure that this is not a PR campaign that we're just doing it for the label of being accessible. It's very important to us to understand that these projects are being done with a true focus aimed at the customers themselves. So I'm finding that a lot of organizations understand that they really should have a certain social obligation.

OM: 24:43

But also I've spoken to many people, not only people within the blind and partially sighted communities, but also people within the disability community as a whole who have exclaimed that you know, there will always be brand loyalty to organizations that provide accessible services, accessible products. And so when an organization makes that they're tapping into a completely new market. And this is hundreds of billions of pounds or dollars or however you want to look at it of a market that is currently being not ignored. think that's quite a strong word to say, but that's currently not being thought of in a way. There is a massive amount of disposable income out there for organisations to be able to tap into that. But of course, for NaviLens, the most vital element is that they are providing a service directly to people who are blind and partially sighted because it helps them and because it provides them with the independence and autonomy that they want in their lives.

TS: 25:47

And I'm curious, what are some of the challenges of integrating NaviLens into say food packaging? Are there concerns about the cost? Have you had companies that have been reluctant to work with you and if so, what have been their concerns?

OM: 26:00

There are always financial curbs, I suppose. Perhaps organizations don't have as big a budget as they would like for accessibility. I know that with accessibility, some organizations place a big budget on that, ensuring that there is the budget in place to be able to use technology to provide that accessibility. And then there are other organizations that don't have that same amount of money, and especially for organizations such as, you know, educational facilities, charities, non-profit organizations, this kind of thing. But that's why what we also do is we provide free kits of NaviLens codes. We have library kits, health center kits, education kits. have events kits and we also have association kits. And we're also currently working on a bathroom kit. And what this will do, these are free sets of codes that any organization really and truly could use these codes in the facilities.

OM: 26:59

And it's also a great way for them to kind of test the technology as well. So we want to be able to try and make it affordable for those who maybe do not have that budget that they would like to make things accessible. You basically print them and place them. So we have this set of many, codes that anybody could use in order to use NaviLens without having to go to the expense. know, NaviLens at the end of the day, we're about making money to sustain what we do and also to continually develop what we do. So we want to be able to reinvest money in making sure that our technology has staying power and that we're also keeping up with the requirements of our end users, as well as the changes in technology. That's kind of more of our focus. We, if an organization can afford us, we always try to create an affordable plan. think a lot of people think, we have a big facility. We need thousands of codes. That's not the case. NaviLens works so well that you don't need so many codes. You can create a really great system without going to really, really high expense.

TS: 28:09

And so looking ahead, what are some of the exciting developments on the horizon for NaviLens and how do see the technology evolving over the next few years?

OM: 28:18

An area actually that is of great interest to me at the moment is actually the area of culture and entertainment. This is an area that's been growing quite rapidly and at a frightening rate of how museums, art galleries and even, you know, entertainment venues such as concert venues, theatres have now realized that, you know, yes, people who are blind and partially sighted, this might sound obvious to so many, but to so many it is not, that they do want to attend all of these locations, they want to go into a museum. They want to find out the information about that particular exhibit, that particular piece of artwork. They also want to go to the theatre. They want to go to music venues.

OM: 28:58

I once spoke to someone from an association in the UK and I was saying about how I realized that it's not so important. We're going to be working on a music festival. And he said to me, I don't think you understand, but everything that's made accessible for anyone who's blind or partially sighted is just as important. Like everything, everything is just as important as each other. Yes, people who are blind and partially sighted need to access transport. They need to access products, but they also want to go to music theater. They want to go to a play. They want to go to a museum. Everything that is made accessible is of equal importance. And it really put me in my place because realistically, you know, yes, you want to go to a hospital. You need to find your way around a hospital. But you also want to go to a music festival, listen to your favorite band and get your way around there. But in an independent way. nothing is of higher importance than others. So this area is really intriguing to me. We're also seeing office spaces are now realizing that within their buildings themselves, they can now make an accessible environment not only for their employees who are blind or partially sighted, but also for any visitors that come to the buildings.

Even outdoor spaces, you know, we're working with Saltram House, is a, you know, it's kind of a stately home near Plymouth and they've put our codes around their gardens so that people can walk around and they can get information about wildlife that's in the garden, what type of plants, what type of animals are around. And also helps them to navigate around the park. So mean, outdoor spaces, everything that's made available or accessible is, is just a wonderful step forward.

OM: 30:41

With these free sets of codes that people can use for their events and libraries. It's just opening up a whole new world for people. And it's just taking accessibility to a whole new level. And it's just so exciting for me to be a part of that.

30:54

Oran, thank you very much. It's been great chatting with you and thank you for coming on the show.

30:58

Thank you, Tosin. Thank you so much for this opportunity. It's been amazing.

TS: 31:06

That was Oran McAllister from NaviLens. I've added links in the show notes where you can learn how to get free NaviLens kits and even use them at home. I've also included links to the full episodes with Lucy Edwards and Sam Latif.

If you enjoyed this episode, a simple way you can let us know is by leaving a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. And if someone came to mind during this episode, don't keep it to yourself, send it their way. I'm Tosin Sulaiman. Thanks for joining me and see you next time on Made For Us.