Widening the beauty net: how Guide Beauty reimagined the makeup kit, with Terri Bryant

TB 0:00

We created our first prototypes, and then we invited them back in. And I was so excited. And then one by one, everybody went 'this doesn't work for me. This doesn't work for me.' And I remember feeling so deflated and thinking, Oh, we didn't do it right. And our head designer looked at me said, What are you crazy? This is amazing. We absolutely did it right.

TS 0:23

Welcome to Made For Us, a podcast about the intersection of innovation and inclusion. It's for anyone who's curious about how to develop products that work better for all of us. I'm your host, Tosin Sulaiman. My guest today is Terri Bryant, the founder of Guide Beauty, a collection of makeup tools and products designed to be used by anyone regardless of skill, ability or disability. A former celebrity makeup artist, Terri tells me how a Parkinson's disease diagnosis made her realize what was lacking in the design of everyday tools, like eyeliner and mascara, and the challenges many people face in applying makeup.

TB 1:00

This can be such a joyful, fun space. It's about celebration, it's a beautiful community. And so the thought that somebody would be excluded is a bit devastating. So if somebody says 'I want to be there, but I can't because...' I want to find the answer to that.

TS 1:14

In this episode, we talk about the three year development process to create Guide Beauty products, and what it was like launching the brand in the middle of the COVID pandemic. Here's our conversation.

TB 1:28

Terri Bryant, founder of Guide Beauty, and I've been a makeup artist and educator for well over two decades, and I started Guide Beauty on a mission to make makeup artistry and all those more challenging techniques, not only more joyful and fun, but also easier and accessible for the widest audience of users possible.

TS 1:46

I'm curious, how did you discover makeup? What role did it play in your life?

TB 1:52

I mean, it's been huge for me. So I started, I've been playing with makeup probably as far back as I can remember, I used to go to the cosmetics counter with my mom four times a year growing up. Back in the day where there was only the legacy brands, the big guys. And they would launch a new collection four times a year. And I would go with my mom. And we would go see Cesaro, which was he was like the makeup artists to go see in our town. And I would watch her I would watch her as he would make up her face. And he would celebrate her and I would watch her leave so lifted and happy and excited. And we would get home and she would say this is mom's, so don't play with it. And I would say of course not. And then I would go into her vanity or bathroom. And I would, of course play with everything. So I started playing early. And I just knew it's where I wanted to be. And funnily enough, actually, Cesaro years later got me my first job. But yeah, I think makeup for me just for some reason, unlike anything else, it just is a creative outlet that spoke to me and that for some reason I was good at and it's what I would just do for hours, I would just sit and play for hours. It's where a lot of my confidence came from growing up, I was a bit of an awkward kid. And I didn't always know how to connect with people. But you find very quickly that when somebody sits in your makeup chair, that's a connection point, when I think when something brings you that much joy, you want to share it. So I knew when I started my career as a makeup artist, I also was going to want to get into education, which is what I did for decades. So not only was I working on that to make up but I was building education programs for companies like Smashbox and Josie Maran and Dior to help teach people how to apply makeup or teach people how to teach people how to apply makeup and did that very happily for many, many years.

TS 3:27

Right. And if you could talk a bit more about your career, you mentioned working on movie sets, I understand you worked in fashion shows where did your career take you?

TB 3:35

Yeah, across the board. I mean, whether it was celebrity or you know, Fashion Week, I don't know which I loved more doing that or doing education, it's probably, you know, they were probably equal, you know, about probably around two thousand ten, I started shifting a little bit, I was doing sort of pulling back a little bit from working on set and doing fashion week and doing fashion shows and doing photo shoots. Because I had noticed that something finding was going on with my hand that that natural skill set that I used to say I could look at your face know how I wanted to celebrate it, and my arm and my hand would just make it happen. Something was shifting and it wasn't working as easily. So I found myself sort of leaning more towards the education piece and doing more there without quite understanding why. And I was doing that for several years before I sort of figured out some answers.

TS 4:19

So you said that you noticed that your abilities were changing? What was it that was different for you?

TB 4:26

I'm sure there were other memories. But if I can think back to what is now probably the distinct memory and somewhere around two thousand ten I was on set working with a model I've worked with numerous times it was with a crew I knew the look was a fresh clean pretty as they call it just for makeup artists pretty simple to knock out intwenty minutes. twenty minutes came and passed and then thirty minutes and forty minutes and you know, taking longer and just thinking what is this disconnect and somehow I got through the day, but it was odd. And I thought well, I don't know what that was. Let's ignore that. But, but those moments kept happening. And that disconnect started to grow. So from a disconnect, I started finding, I get this stiffness in my shoulder, my fingers weren't moving independently from each other in a way that they normally would. And so that those changes were was leading me to go see doctors and sort of say, What's going on here. And for about five years, I was getting answers like, well, you're getting older, and do you work out? And do you taking vitamins and do you have cocktail hour? Because maybe no more drinks for you? Or like, what? All these sort of strange, you know, you sort of sit there and think that can't sound right, right. Like, I'm no older than all my other friends in this industry. And they seem to be doing okay, and I take some vitamins, but you know, do I workout enough. Who does? But like they just didn't seem right. But you kind of accept it. Because in some ways, while it's frustrating, it's better to hear than something worse, right.

But as time went on, at some point, along those five years, I started hit a point where not only was it just a disconnect, executing artistry at the level, I always had professionally and somebody else was starting to struggle doing makeup by myself, and it was like, This is insane. Something has to be wrong. And fortunately, I finally got in front of the right doctor who very quickly said, you know, we will confirm, but I'm pretty sure you have Parkinson's. And that's what it turned out to be. And while certainly not the greatest news in the world to receive, on some level, it was such a relief to finally know what was going on. And there was something very empowering and like, Okay, well now at least I know what's in front of me. And I'd like to say that that's kind of the day that Guide Beauty was born because I ran ran home with tunnel vision thinking, right, well, now I understand what's happening here. Maybe I can solve for this. And I started to try to create some prototypes first, just for myself. And then obviously things, things became much bigger than that along the way.

TS 6:47

That's an amazing reaction to you know, what must have been very difficult news to take in. Why was that one of the first things that came to your mind?

TB 6:56

It's funny, I remember sitting in the room, when I got the diagnosis, I kind of saw it coming. My father was with me at the time, he was a retired physician. And afterwards, he said, honey you kind of looked like you kind of glazed over there for a minute, where did your mind go? And I'm sure it went in a million different places. But I started thinking about how I care for myself, how I present myself myself to the world and how it's something I've always owned. So like I can throw on a Kaftan it's it's pretty easy. And a cocktail ring, beautiful outfit, easy to do, I can get my hair blown out. Makeup is a daily thing. And it's something I've always owned, it has not only been my livelihood, but again, my creative outlet. It's where my community is, my greatest relationships. And the thought of not being able to have that for myself was devastating. And so I just wasn't willing to let it go. It's a much bigger thing for me than just a little lipstick. It's something that has been mine. And it's brought me again, so much joy that if there was a way to hold on to it, I was gonna I was gonna find it, come hell or high water, Right. I was I was gonna figure it out.

TS 7:57

We'll be back to the interview in just a moment. But first, I have a question for you, Made For Us listeners. I'd love to get your feedback on the show. You've taken the time to tune in. So I'd like to know what you think about this podcast, and what you want more or less of? Are there any guests you'd like to hear from in future episodes? You'll find a super quick survey in the show notes. So I'd be really grateful if you could share your thoughts there. Now back to the show.

TS: 08:23

And did you look for alternative makeup tools at the time? Were you trying to find other workarounds?

TB 8:30

Yeah, so I went home that day. And I pulled out my makeup kit. And I pulled out my husband's toolkit, along with some duct tape and all sorts of crazy things. And I started playing and I was looking at the forms. And I didn't exactly know why I was sort of gravitating to sort of the forms I was trying to play with. But instinctually I think, you know, I've always understood mechanics with a good artistry. And I was starting to pick up on certain things like grip and stability that were missing and why my hand was it wasn't doing what it needed to do. The tool was no longer just this extension of my arm, I needed the tool to do more for me. So I started to build in these pieces, I saw that I was having a hard time finding things that already existed. So I knew it was gonna have to create something that I can see certain forms. If you think about most traditional tools and makeup. They mimic paint brushes and artistry tools and other mediums, right. And they're very generally those sorts of thin, round cylindrical and they're meant to be applied to something else. Like you paint a canvas, you paint a wall. Makeup artistry, you're painting a face, it's somebody else's face.

When you take those tools and turn it around on yourself. You lose so much, there's no stability, there's no control. The grip is different, where is your resting points. You also lose perspective, right? Because now you're looking at a mirror. There's so many more challenges for self application that I never thought about in in sort of the full sense that I'm starting to recognize because for whatever reason, I was able to excel in this area, despite what was lacking in the tool. And so I started to try and figure that out on my own. And that's kind of that aha moment, which is, wait a minute, I spent my whole career not just as a big artist that trying to make makeup easy for people. And I was missing something, I could only understand one side of the equation, and only knew what it meant to be a prof.., I felt like to be a professional. Now I could understand the disconnect. Maybe I could solve from it in a new way that I couldn't before. And the big shift was, then we obviously it was not just my prototypes, we went to a design team that introduced me to a whole world of inclusive and universal design. And that allowed me to see that not only was it about making makeup, artistry easier, but it was also about solving for a level of exclusion that didn't realize existed based on how products were being developed or designed. But I didn't see it until my own experience allowed me to see it because I became the person who was watching myself getting pushed to the outside.

TS: 10:49

Right, that's really interesting. And just going back to when you try to find alternative tools, and you realize that there wasn't anything out there. Were you surprised?

TB: 10:58

I don't know if it was surprise, I think it was at that point of like tunnel vision I just was looking to solve for this problem. I wanted to fill this void. If I was, the answer sort of generally what I'd be surprised now looking back, no, not because I don't think people care. But I think that people don't know, you don't know what you don't know. And if I, if I go back through my career, all the times that I consulted for brands in product development, was a room of people like me, it was a room of makeup artists. So we all come in with generally the same skill level, creating products, or not just for everybody. But that's not the way to create products that are inclusive of everybody, you need to bring everybody into the room. So we weren't doing that, because we're trying to leave somebody out. We thought as pros, we were best informed, to create products for, for all right. But it can't just be a room of one person, it has to be a room that reflects the communities that we live in. And that's across all gender, gender identities, skin tone, ethnicity, skill, ability, disability, you know, there's a wide range here, and we need to cast the widest net possible and that needs to happen at the beginning of the development process. I think, again, you just don't know until you know.

TS: 12:11

And going back to the original vision for Guide Beauty, what was your goal in creating these products who were the users that you had in mind?

TB: 12:21

I mean, everybody, you know, it's a lofty goal. And it will always be a work in progress. But anybody that wants to play in the space, I want to find a way to help them do that. And it just, it goes back to this can be such a joyful, fun space. It's a celebration, it's caring for yourself as well. And it's how you choose to present yourself to the world. It's a creative outlet. It's a beautiful community. And so the thought that somebody would be excluded is a bit devastating to me. So if somebody says I want to be there, but I can't because I want to find the answer to that.

TS: 12:52

And I'd like to talk about your design process. You talked about casting the net as wide as possible, can you share a bit more about your approach?

TB: 13:01

So after working on my own prototypes, for about six months to a year, we went to a design team that specializes in human factors engineering. And they introduced me to a concept called inclusive design and universal design, the concept that when you cast the widest net possible when you factor in for those who quote unquote, have the greatest need, you not only invite people to the party, who were never invited before, but you make the party better for everybody who's already in the room. And that's the goal, right? So when we were in our design process, we spent three years with hundreds of test users. And it was, again, if you want to play in the space, come on in, so we had professional makeup artist, newbies. If you had arthritis, like me with Parkinson's, like my partner, Selam Blair who has MS. You said, I'm just a decent at it, I could be better or I've just never quite figured it out. Or I just don't have enough time, I'm a busy mom. Whatever the reason was, just come on and and play and then you watch people and play with traditional tools, and you wait sort of see sticking points. And whenever you see a sticking point, you stop and think how can I solve for it? And the interesting thing is you find along the way that the sticking points are almost always universally the same. It's just on what level it is challenging to you.

TS: 14:13

What are some of the common challenges that you saw? Was there anything that surprised you?

TB: 14:18

The two human factors that kind of presented themselves consistently across the board were when it came to grip and stability, that that's where people said tended to challenge, especially because we were starting with form factors around makeup techniques that require a greater greater level of precision, like eyeliner and brow where you need precision application. And when you're doing either eye or brown, not only do you have to do it well on one eye, you have to rinse and repeat to the other and have the match. So good luck to anybody, it's challenging. And a lot of that is because the tools themselves are not designed with grip and stability in mind. And when you put those human factors in building for them into the form, then it helps you whether you're the pro, to be a better pro but it also allows somebody like me now who can't apply my eyeliner any other way without it.

TS: 15:06

So how did those insights then influence the first products that you developed?

TB: 15:11

We had the design team, which was incredible. And so, you know, we I remember the first group we had come in, and we said, everybody bring in whatever you're using now, liquids, pencils, let's see, bring in, bring in your makeup bag, and we'll watch it play. And then we're going to learn and we created our first prototypes. And then we invited them back in. And I was so excited. And then one by one, everybody went well this doesn't work for me, this doesn't work for me. And I remember feeling so deflated and thinking, Ah, we didn't do it, right. And our head designers looked at me said, What, are you crazy? This is amazing. We absolutely did it right. And I say what you're talking about. We the forms don't work? No, no, you're learning this, what's happening right now is they're able to tell you the fact that it's such a distinct like, this doesn't work, you're figuring out why it doesn't work. And then then for the next version, and then the next version and the next version. So there were well over a hundred iterations of our guideline before we got to where we are today. So it takes a minute, it's a process. But if you're willing to invest the time, once you do that, then that sets the stage for other form factors that are beneficial in other areas of makeup artistry.

TS: 16:17

And besides the tools, there's also the formulation of the makeup itself, right, can you share the thought process behind that?

TB: 16:24

Yeah, so not, unlike what very often happens in cosmetics is, and nothing wrong with this. It's a process I've been part of for years, but there are stock components that exist. And as a brand, I can go in, and I can get the stock component, and then I can deco it and fill it with my formula. Everything we've done is custom because everything has to match up. So once we were creating custom forms for the tools, a new way to apply the eyeliner, the actual line itself are a new brushes, or a new ring that allows you to hold the property different way, then the formulas also have to be customized to match the tools. And so all those things kind of have to work together, which is also part of what takes such a long time, because you're going back and forth between the ideal design, the engineering of the tools, we also wanted it to be beautiful, and we want it to be clean, and we wanted it to be cruelty free and we wanted it to be vegan, we had, there were a lot of checkmarks that we had to check off along the way that extended the process.

TS: 17:20

And I wonder how you thought about the size of the market as well, because you said earlier that this could be applicable to so many different people? What was your assessment of the size of the market for inclusive beauty products and tools?

TB: 17:34

Yeah, I mean, my sort of goal is to show people, I think there's this misconception that you either create for some sort of some sort of again, quote on quote, "norm," or and it's the larger audience or some smaller group of people with some level of disability, or chronic health condition. And what I'm saying is, there are times where adaptation is needed. But that's not where the starting point should be that when you include everybody in the process in the beginning, that we should all be able to enjoy the same products together. If they're informed by everybody, there'll be better products like I just think about all the examples, we are surrounded by products and items in our life that are sort of created through this lens, this inclusive and universal design lens on a daily basis that we don't realize, and one of the ones that I always used as an example is like the remote control for the television, right. And so growing up, I did not have a remote control for a television and my brother and I used to argue over who had to get up and walk to three feets to change the channel. But the remote control was first created for people who had mobility issues who could not physically get up and across the room to to do that. Now most people don't recognize that right? Like, but we all benefit. Now today I get to lean back and actually, another example is now I probably don't even need the remote control anymore. Because it's it's voice like anytime you say hey Siri, if you've ever used an electric toothbrush, if you have ever been able to cross the street with your luggage with a curb cut effect, right with a sloping sidewalk, self driving cars, audio books, all of those things were created through this inclusive and then to a universal design lens. And I think that's what I'm trying to sort of help people understand that this is not just a kind nice thing to do. Of course, everybody should be included. But I understand from a business side, people need to understand that it's also a smart thing to do and it's it's creates better communities and it creates better products. So why wouldn't we just created that lens?

TS: 19:30

And in twenty twenty two, You announced that Selma Blair would be Guide Beauty's chief creative officer? How did that collaboration come about?

TB: 19:39

Funny how the way the world works? You know, certainly wasn't wasn't looking, but we have a mutual friend who introduced us that you know, you two just have to talk and so I was like, Sure, great, and I sent her some product and then it was during COVID sort of lock downs. We ended up getting on a FaceTime and the FaceTime kind of came on, and Selma face was super close to the camera. And I was like, well, hello. And she the first words out of her mouth, look at my makeup. Look at my eyeliner, I did this. And you know, which was obviously, you're so excited to hear. But then we got into this long conversation I think we started to connect over our love of makeup artistry and playing. And then we started talking about our journeys in our with our own health and our and our own diagnosis. And you know, she has a similar story to mine, and that it took years of people saying, uh you're just getting older, you're probably in your head, drink more water, there's nothing wrong with you, right? There were just so many connection points. And that kind of just led to, we want to do this tog.. like should we be doing this together? Because she is brilliant. I mean, she has a long history and fashion and design. And this is her world. And so and she was coming up with great ideas. So it just felt right. Like sometimes you just it's like when you find the right partner, like sometimes you just, it just clicked and we just knew we were, we could be on this mission together. So it wasn't pre-planned. But I don't know the universe was very kind. And just personally, I'm always better when there are people or people around me, I don't like to be in a silo working on my own. So it's been a nice journey.

TS: 21:11

And just for context for people who might not be familiar, she was diagnosed with MS.

TB: 21:16

Correct, yep. So she was diagnosed with MS after, right after she had her son, might be around ten now, But she started to notice changes in her health. And she spent many years trying to get answers and similar to sort of how I shared. So it was a long path. And then when she finally found out what she was dealing with, she took it upon herself. She understood that she had an opportunity to help inform and educate and bring awareness to community and she engaged really quickly. And she's just been a tremendous, tremendous advocate.

TS: 21:51

And I read in an interview that she said, You know, when she discovered Guide Beauty, she felt alive again, I'm curious what you've heard from other users over the years, because I know you've got a lot of letters from people?

TB: 22:04

Yeah, I love those letters. It's sort of across the board, there's just between people who say, you know, you've given me back something that I thought I'd lost forever, or how fun for the first time, I never thought that I was, could be part of this world. Or I could do this. And I did, I got a really lovely letter from a retired judge who, every day she wore her eyeliner and her mascara and due to a degenerative health condition that she had no longer been able to apply her makeup. And she wrote somewhere, something along the lines of she's sharing that, you know, for her, her eyeliner, and her mascara were sort of just as important as to her and gave her as much confidence and value as her role as a judge. And so to have that back was so meaningful, it sort of it helped bring back and give her back part of her identity. And then one of the really cute ones was somebody wrote, I never in my life have been able to apply eyeliner or mascara, I'm so excited, I could cry. Thank goodness, this is waterproof. I at the very least knew the products would connect, because I wasn't creating them on my own because I wasn't doing that thing where let me create a product and a marketing story. And then tell you you want it. The community created the products with us. But those letters are on the days where you're kind of under the table and you're like, Oh my Lord, I don't know if I can do this anymore, then you get a message like that. You're like, No, I'm back at it. It's the thing that keeps you going.

TS: 23:30

Yeah, sure. And who would you say are your main users? Is it the audience that you initially had in mind?

TB: 23:38

It is very universal, I think it is across the board. And so if you're looking at sort of two people, you have the pro, right and somebody who over time due to chronic health conditions that has not been able to access makeup the way they used to. And they're both using the same product, I think you kind of played with well, maybe it'll lean more to this audience, maybe it'll lean more to that audience. But it's hard to say that it's any one particular person because the goal really is that universal design.

TS: 24:07

And I remember reading that you said disabilities, the only minority group that we'll all find ourselves in eventually under

TB: 24:13

A hundred percent, it's kind of silly that we call it a minority group. Right? We are all more or less evil at any given moment day of our lives. And just by virtue of if we exist, if we're if we're living, we're aging, and that means that you know, for whatever reason, whether it is temporary, or it's chronic, or you know, it's we're going to be there. So you're not just designing for somebody else these products are for all of us.

TS: 24:42

And given the universal appeal of these products. So the fact that you've connected with so many people, what is your growth been like as a business?

TB: 24:50

It's been tremendous. I feel like we we launched in twenty twenty and I joked that I did deskside, which is when when you're going to launch a brand or a new collection, you go and you meet with beauty editors you meet with press, you want to show people your product and hope that they get excited about it and want to share it. I did that. And then two weeks later COVID shut everything down. And I was like, oh, so there's no retail conversations. There's no I'm a new brand and there's no place to sell. Thank goodness for social media and right and because that's what happened, in a lot of ways those challenges, in some ways, not that I would wish for the COVID moment to happen, turned out to be a bit of a blessing because everybody got a chance to kind of slow down. And we I started doing a lot of this just talking to people, getting selling products, getting on calls with people who are like minded or makeup influencers, or mommy bloggers and just sort of naturally authentically connecting which I think is more valuable than anything, right.

TS: 25:46

And one of the things that we've talked about in this conversation is changing the narrative when it comes to designing products. Do you feel you've had the impact that you'd like to have on the industry? And in terms of changing the narrative?

TB: 25:59

I think we're on our way. Are we there today? No, are we so much further than we were when I launched? Absolutely. There are times where I think adaptation and accommodation is really key and important and there's times where I certainly want it for myself, I just don't want that to be the first step along the way. I want really authentic inclusion to be the ultimate goal. I think you know, the industry in general has come a long way in a short amount of time across the board in terms of Diversity Equity and Inclusion. We're still not there right? But should always be a work in progress because the day we think we're done, we've done something wrong.

TS: 26:38

And how can people follow your work? How can they learn more about Guide Beauty.

TB: 26:42

You can certainly follow us on Instagram At GuideBeautyCosmetics, At Guide Beauty on Tik Tok. You can reach out to us at hereforyou@guidebeauty.com which is where our customer service or beauty guides are. You can visit our website at guidebeauty.com. Any one of those places. We're here, we're ready, we're waiting for you.

TS: 27:07

That was Terri Bryant of Guide Beauty. If you'd like to learn more, you'll find all the links in the show notes. As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please pass it on to someone who might like it too. And don't forget to share your feedback on Season One of the podcast by taking a quick survey which you'll also find in the show notes. I'm Tosin Sulaiman. Thanks for joining me on Made For Us.

TB: 27:29

A book - Mean Baby by Selma Blair. It's a must. And then a song, oh, I'm gonna say there's so many I'm gonna date myself. But one that always brings me joy is As by Stevie Wonder.

Transcribed with the help of https://otter.ai